06 Tuesday Mar 2012
Posted in Discernment, heresy, New Apostolic Reformation, State of the church
Great article and book review from The Reformed Traveler. I’m going to have to add this book to my reading list! Wandering Stars by Keith Gibson. Link below for the article.
Wandering Stars: An Examination of the New Apostles and Prophets.
29 Sunday Jan 2012
Posted in Deception, Discernment, State of the church
Here is an excellent article about Spiritual Abuse from The Watchman Expositor. Just click on the link there for the full article.
Spiritual abuse is a very difficult thing to get over, it has lasting effects on it’s victim. As those of you know that read my blog, my family and I attended an abusive fellowship for a little more than 3 years. I left the church in the summer of 2009. I am very thankful that my time there wasn’t longer as I am sure the longer you stay in an abusive fellowship the harder it is for you to leave and the longer it takes to heal. While I will always suffer from the effects of spiritual abuse I have come so far. I have learned so much, namely that I can’t put my trust in men and organizations but only on Jesus Christ and his infallible word. I have learned to cling evermore to the bible and it’s doctrines and never fail to test all that I am taught with scripture. I have to say I never wanted to step foot in church again and I didn’t for some time, but after much praying and asking God for a true bible teaching Gospel preaching church we found (thanks to Teresa and Sermon Audio!) our home church Elizabeth Baptist. And no, there are no perfect churches because there are no perfect people, but your church should always be the Pillar and Ground for the Truth!! Your pastor should be open for questions and welcome them! Your church should have Deacons and Elders to guard the flock that Christ gave his life for, and your Pastor should be subject to the authority of them in regards to church matters.
I hope that you will read the article I linked to, it is very good, take some time and ask yourself if your church resembles some of those characteristics. If you do find that you are in an abusive fellowship please know that you are not alone, there are many of us that have been right where you are. It’s a scary place to be, but with prayer, trusting in Jesus and following him and him alone you can take the steps necessary to come out of spiritual abuse. You can feel free to comment on my blog, you don’t have to use your name unless you want to and can post as anonymous or make up a screen name of your favorite cartoon character or something. I’ve used all kinds of crazy names (Lunice, LOL). Sometimes it helps to have others to talk to.
Here are a few more articles pertaining to this subject:
Mind Control: Six Tell-tale signs of Abusive Church Leaders
How Can I Discern Whether I’m In a Healthy or Abusive Fellowship
10 Tuesday Jan 2012
Posted in Cults, Deception, Parenting, Patriarchy, State of the church
Most often extreme anything one way or the other is not a good thing and the same holds true in Christianity. You will see a group taking certain scriptures and going completely too far with them. I want to bring to your attention to a great article I read yesterday on The Reformed Traveler blog originally on Galatians 4 blog showing two sides of the same evil coin, Feminism and The Patriarchy Movement. I am seeing more and more women who seem to be involved in this kind of thing, thinking to be a Godly woman you have to check your brain, your thoughts and your words at the door and lie down and be the door mat. THIS IS NOT WHAT CHRIST INTENDS FOR YOU TO DO!!! I read a book several years ago by Debi Pearl “Created To Be His Help Meet”, this book encouraged woman to accept abuse and stay in abusive relationships and just put up with it. This book is dangerous. But that is another blog post entirely. The Reformed Traveler has some great articles posted about these kinds of movements. Please read it all the way through when you have an opportunity!
By Bible Believer Galatians 4
One way the powers that be often work in this world is presenting two conflicting sides, that are no real solution but more oppression while the proverbial truth falls through the middle. Thus, the subject of this blog entry, maybe a bit far reaching but something that has been on my mind. Years ago even before I became a Christian, I realized radical feminism was a scam. After salvation, its satanic roots would come to light. Years ago, I and my friends were talking of the two-for-one deal the corporations got where now they got two workers working for the price of one, and wish it were the days where one income could support a family.
We have seen an erosion of social connections, family time, and the children have suffered, while to be blunt, the women have been overworked with the “two shift never rest” life. Working women with children today are perpetually exhausted? Why? Well there are only so many hours in a day.
Yes, there are women especially of lower socioeconomic classes who have always had to work, whether as a maid or cook, and single and widowed women who had to work by necessity. I am glad that more fields are open to women, and they can follow their pursuits out of the “pink collar” world, but feminism was not what it was cracked up to be in all facets. Equal pay, inheritance, property rights, protection from abuse, representation in court were some good developments even started in the 19th century to bring women up to a better standing but somewhere along the way, things fell off the track, radical feminism sold on behalf of the global elites, the whole “you can have it all” lie.
Women were shown pictures of high power feminists with jobs that brought them “empowerment” when in reality to work those sort of jobs, require a 60 plus hour a week commitment. Reading Ms. magazine, working class women need not apply, I felt it was written for women of only a certain socio-economic level where “work” meant fancy suits, interesting lunches, huge expense accounts and wonderful conversation to go with all that “power”. Some women find their way into that kind of life, but it is not the majority who are out doing cashier work, cleaning, factory work, or — ironically — taking care of other kids who aren’t your own for pay! The claims of “power” are dubious and were used to actually control women even more.
There have been many Christians I agree with who have exposed the total evil of feminism that include the murders of abortion. Why mince words: millions of lives have been ended where money and economics were to take precedent even over human lives, erosion of family life, decline of morality and debasement of women–maybe in old school feminism objectification of the female figure was cried against, but that is gone, in it’s so called third wave or younger feminism where debauchery is glorified on shows like Sex and the City.
Look at this picture, and think to yourself, does she really “love women” when she stands up for abortion with her disgusting T-shirt that admits her unrepentant sin?…[50% of those babies being killed are very young women] The “Illuminati” pyramid hand sign is not by accident either:
She sure loves that hand position!:
For those of us raised in Generation X, the women’s lib generation had a few good ideas with desiring women to be able to work different careers or meet each other halfway, but the truth of the reality hit home hard. One thing with social movements many are created, co-opted and used by the elites who now can direct and programme entire populations.
Raised as feminists, told that any vulnerability was to be squelched, led to work like a dog lifestyles where career was to come first and we were all supposed to move thousands and hundreds of miles away from our home towns, many of my college friends twenty-five years hence, we commiserated about feminism with hands held up in front of our mouths knowing our viewpoints didn’t fit the politically correct mantras around us, keeping these conversations private rather then public, saying “we felt lied to.” Many of us even admitted we wish we have had a more old-fashioned life, where the focus would have been on forming roots, a family and relationships instead of careers, which now seem to just take and never give, especially in this economy. In other words, a job is just a job, and today company loyalty is nil, meaning a company lay-off from out of the blue means it can be all wiped away. Years spent moving around the country, for the career, studies, or even just mere survival nowadays, one can easily wake up, unknown in yet another new city, you moved to- to “make a living”, and if no family or husband has been obtained, the pain can be quite acute.
I often befriend ladies who are far older then me. In my old small rural town, I had lots of elderly friends who say the last two generations of their daughters and grandchildren had it far worse. They say, “Where is your time? Everything is rush, rush, rush.” They told me when we were young we had far more times for our families and each other. Going for a cup of coffee with a friend even if they worked part time was far more doable. There was even this article from some years ago: “Desperate to be housewives, young women yearn for 1950s role as stay-at home mums”. This was an English article, but the same feelings were being heard in America.
Margi Conklin, editor of New Woman, said: “There has been a fundamental shift in young women’s attitudes towards life and work. They’ve watched their own mothers trying and often failing to ‘have it all’ and have decided they don’t want it all. They don’t want to work crazy hours while their children are put into nurseries and their relationships disintegrate under the strain.”
Some revealing studies have come out, speaking of feminism as a failure, asking why are there so many unhappy women?
In a recent presentation at a meeting of the American Law and Economics Association, Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers of the University of Pennsylvania outlined what they called the new paradox of declining female happiness. After noting that by most objective measures, “the lives of women in the United States have improved over the past 35 years,” they showed that, nonetheless, “measures of subjective well-being indicate that women’s happiness has declined both absolutely and relative to men.”
Obviously there are some unhappy women out there.
But here’s the deal, when I was writing the Quiverful/Duggar article and examining all the Vision Forum, stuff, it seemed interesting, like a BACK to the PAST- BACKLASH. Where mythic views of the past were supposed to provide answers, to women’s [and men's and the over all family's troubled lives]. Are these movements swimming to the other extreme? As a response to the radical feminism, wanting to reclaim the past? To escape lives that have become unbalanced? Does this mean they are necessarily scriptural? No it does not. Being in opposition to radical feminism and it’s ungodly ways, does not mean a group has all the answers. In other words, evil can come from two different directions. Here we can see where the focus on the culture wars, is setting a new trap for Christian women.
Christians know radical feminism is wicked. Battling it out with men is a carnal way of life focusing on the feminist “power struggle”, but what about total unthinking blind submission to men? It is carnal too. Men biblically are the leaders of the family but this does not render women slaves. Evil is to be stood against lest it be enabled and God’s commandments and leading trumps any man’s demands or edicts that are wicked. One extreme to the OTHER rendering the woman in this case even more oppressed then before, where repression comes from a different direction, where overweening loyalty to career and self-improvement a la the Oprah generation is transferred into something more insidious.
For years one heard from the feminist movement; “Down with Patriarchy!” even in New Age spirituality and other feminist theology, the “patriarchy” or assumed dominance of society by men was to be dismantled.
By the late 80s, I was immersed into this type of thinking as I entered the Unitarian Universalist church, reading Naomi Goldberg’s book “The Changing of the Gods” where “God” was redefined and “goddess worship” spiritually advanced, cries for the patriarchy to be dismantled. I was further indoctrinated via a women’s study professor whose frequent subjects for papers involved comparing your personality to your favorite chosen “goddess”. Thank God many women are saved out of even those false lies, on this blog, I talked about my own salvation from Satan’s lies.
But now the New world order influenced fallen away “Christian” churches are telling women “Up With Patriarchy?” in response?
There is indeed a trend now in the churches called the patriarchy movement. Honestly finding out about this, I have been shocked, it is like the Taliban has come to America, in a pseudo-Christian form. Honestly as I have already discussed the Duggars, Quiverful Movement, Vision Forum, Stay At Home Daughters–where adult women are kept home under the authority of their fathers, are all branches of this rotten Dominionist tree. One thing I am discovering is there are many other groups now promoting these “women submit” solutions too. When I was young and UU, I read “The Handmaid’s Tale” by Margaret Atwood, it was a book where the state [working with religion] totally controlled women who were submissive to men–they basically lived like women in extreme Islam live today, but even more controlled, and subjugated by men living basically as slaves, there for their pleasure only and control. While I realized this book advanced many liberal radical feminist answers I did not agree with such as advancing abortion via the lie called “choice” by its extreme scenario, watching this patriarchy stuff, it’s like seeing this insane fiction come into reality.
Women in the patriarchy movement are to obey husbands without question, where marriage is to become a dance of tyranny, rather then a husband who loves his wife more then his own body. Women’s worth is solely in motherhood, a valuable position of course, but idolized in this movement. Women are even told to avoid personal friendships in some of these circles, and that they are not to talk in the presence of men unless invited to do so.
“Kathryn Joyce, who wrote Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement, explains that women in biblical patriarchy are supposed to ask their husbands about every detail of household management (which is their sole calling), remain silent in church, are discouraged from speaking in the company of men, and are typically considered at fault for marital difficulties, all of which stem from their lack of submission. “
Everything is about gender, and about putting women in their “place” via control and severe positions. I’ve been told even writing this blog, by some extreme Christian patriarchy types, is a sin against God, because I am female. According to folks like this my only role is to post on knitting and babies, but different people are called to different things. God has a place for mothers and his other Christian daughters too. Whatever happened to this Bible verse?
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
According to the Patriarchy people, Priscilla would have been forced to stay home.
One thing Ive noted writing the other Quiverful/Duggar/Vision Forum article, they are selling a new “lifestyle” to women, very modern marketing, selling a “Vision” [a la Vision Forum?], One Christian blogger describes it thusly:
“I saw pictures of women dressed in beautiful Victorian garb. Of young families with their children and I wanted that. It looked so pretty. So happy.”
I too read the blogs with the wonderful gardens displayed, happy children, huge homes, and this emphasis on almost a “Christian” Martha Stewart ethos, where a perfect homelife was promised as long as you “kept sweet”, submissive and blindly obeyed husband and pastor or father for life if you remained unmarried remaining a child for life. What does this do for men when women give up everything for them to manage?
What is interesting is this “vision” goes totally against the life of the woman shown in Proverbs 31, she isn’t hidden in the house, barred from society like a Saudi Arabian woman squirreled away unable to leave home without a male escort, in this case, her huband is depending on her and trusting in her. She is in the market place selling things, and one would imagine actually “talking” to people. She is “working” and not a sinner in doing so, in providing for her family. Notice even in verse 16 she makes a real estate transaction!
Proverbs 31:
10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
14 She is like the merchants’ ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.
29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.
30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.
31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.
That said while here, the Proverbs woman, does attend to her husband, home and family, this idea of repressed blindly submissive women is NOT biblical. The Proverbs woman helps to provide for her family and is strong, not weak! One thing there is such a thing as balance in life. The pendelum swinging from extreme power struggles between men and women, overwork and rejection of family life and godly principles back to this patriarchy nonsense is the work of Satan.
Obviously one can see the appeal on the surface, but the reality does not match what this stuff really means or what is being “sold” to Christian women as the opposite of the radical feminism that has so negatively impacted their lives. In other words, the “new answers” are no answers at all, but just more oppression on women, where gender supercedes everything else including the preaching of the gospel.
There are some Christians who are concerned out there, and warning about this stuff. Here is one group,
“At a time in our church history that the main focus should be on winning lost souls and spreading the gospel to a hurting world, we fear for the future because the Council on Biblical Manhood and Biblical Womanhood has placed a greater priority on women’s submissive role rather than on the gospel of Jesus
Christ.”
While I need to learn more about this particular group,they definitely are right about that! They warn about how all the focus on patriarchial authority is another version of “priestcraft” and I totally agree. Anytime a false teacher says someone stands in authority over you, and intercessing for you that is just a mere man, instead of Jesus Christ Himself that is a problem. What very interesting too is the false doctrine that is exposed called Subordinationism, which is taught by many of these patriarchy groups, this essentially means that the Holy Spirit and Jesus [as part of the trinity-godhead] are subordinate to God the Father instead of being “equals” who are interrelational and “one”. After all if you are going to teach that women and even adult male “children” must submit to older male fathers, changes to the theology backing all this nonsense up are forthcoming. They are essentially making two members of the trinity less “powerful” which is blasphemy beyond belief.
There seems to be many front groups for the patriarchy movement The Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood is one of them. Why the focus on genders? It is a bit disturbing. Lots of big names from Piper to R Albert Mohler are signed on to this group! I find it amusing how every lady has “Homemaker” listed by her name even the one female college professors. Homemaking is a good pursuit, I cook and clean myself for my own husband, but isn’t that a given? While some of these groups are not as extreme as the Vision Forum folks, this one is definitely seen of the biblical patriarchy ilk. Much of this stuff is even entering the mainstream churches,not just fundamentalist or officially “family integrated” churches.
The other day I encountered something called: A True Woman movement. The name itself is kind of off-putting as if every woman that does not subscribe to these beliefs is not a true woman.
True Woman describes itself thusly:
The True Woman Movement is a worldwide, grassroots movement that was birthed on October 11, 2008, as over 6,000 women gathered in Chicago, Illinois, for the unveiling and signing of the True Woman Manifesto at Revive Our Hearts’ first True Woman Conference.
Since then, approximately 20,000 women have attended all four True Woman national women’s conferences, hosted by Revive Our Hearts in partnership with organizations like Moody Bible Institute, FamilyLife, Moms In Touch International, The Council for Biblical Manhood Womanhood, and Life Action Ministries.
Christians should avoid manifestos and signing their names to what are essentially “vows” but there too they have the proverbial manifesto, with false teachings and patriarchy advanced.
The manifesto is scary…I would never sign this document. Some of it sounds good, Christians all desire good things, morality a desire to gloryify God–who can argue with that but remember many false things are sold under the guise of something “good”. Ignored are the realities of many women’s lives in these sort of documents, there are many women who are single, who do not have families, who are childless, who were married before they were born again, who are married to non-Christian or unsaved men. Overall you will notice what I mean by the return to patriarchy, where submission of women to men, is the theme instead of following God as grown up daughters in Jesus Christ. Here think back to the false doctrine out too. These are parts taken right from the Manifesto:
When we respond humbly to male leadership in our homes and churches, we demonstrate a noble submission to authority that reflects Christ’s submission to God His Father.12
A noble submission to authority? I have prayed more would look to God’s will in seeking to do his will, then helping to elevate more false preachers. Even in a marriage, the man’s “leadership” is to be out of love, not the woman’s slavish submission, the man has his end of the deal too to fulfill:
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
As for humble submission to preachers and church leaders, this is one reason the churches have gone so bad, the hirelings sure love to stress blind obedience and putting themselves above God for people to obey without question. Once they glom on to the women and get them to stop thinking and following without question, their power will be even more entrenched.
This one I found very interesting, given the numbers of abused women in this country, and others where such a belief has led to oppression and diminished lives. What if one of the Duggar girls want’s to leave home, would she be told that is a “Selfish insistence on personal rights”? This country was built on individual rights trumping those of the group’s. Yes being a servant can be a good thing for a Christian and that is a quality to emulate in Jesus Christ but keep in mind the over-all agenda here.
Selfish insistence on personal rights is contrary to the spirit of Christ who humbled Himself, took on the form of a servant, and laid down His life for us.13
They are correct that children are a blessing, but what about the childless, infertile, those unable to afford adoption, or never married women?
Children are a blessing from God; women are uniquely designed to be bearers and nurturers of life, whether it be their own biological or adopted children, or other children in their sphere of influence.15
Here they focus on gender as trumping all else. By femininity I suspect they mean meekness, mildness and a submissive spirit. They have defined it by their own twisted standards, here think back to verse 17 of Proverbs 31.
God’s plan for gender is wider than marriage; all women, whether married or single, are to model femininity in their various relationships, by exhibiting a distinctive modesty, responsiveness, and gentleness of spirit.16
Dominionism right here. Jesus said, HIS KINGDOM is NOT of this world. The patriarchy movements and groups are connected and interwoven with the Dominionist and other political groups:
1.Pray for a movement of revival and reformation among God’s people that will result in the advancement of the Kingdom and gospel of Christ among all nations.33
The leaders in this true movement stuff, are well known names, connected to many other well known leaders and published in mainstream evangelical magazines like Christianity Today. Many are blantantly ecumenical like Joni Eareckson Tada who even signed the Manhattan Declaration. Odd how they are so “liberal” when it comes to even signing agreements with churches that preach false gospels but so “old school” in promoting a new enslavement of women. Mary Kassian is one that teaches the same themes and has her website “Girls Gone Wise”. Nancy Leigh Demoss is another one, that teaches female submission will “alter the culture” in all her books.
So please think about these things, do not let these women mislead you down their false road and messages, that are not biblical. Patriarchy is not the answer either in response to radical feminism, these are more worldly answers that do not put following God first. Patriarchy is defined in the dictionary, thusly:
patriarchy (ˈpeɪtrɪˌɑːkɪ)
— n , pl -chies
1. a form of social organization in which a male is the head of the family and descent, kinship, and title are traced through the male line.
It is yet another message of social oppression and control that puts “another system” in place of what God has directed biblically and with the sinful nature of human beings has been much abused. Women are not slaves to men. They are to be helpmeets and mutual supporters. So please do not fall into the trap these false teachers have laid.
See the author’s post, HERE ~ Bible Believer of Galatians 4 Blogspot
10 Saturday Sep 2011
Posted in Cults, Deception, State of the church
Mind Control: Six Tell-tale Signs of Abusive Church Leaders.
WOW! I read this a little while ago and is this ever right on the money!! I used to attend an abusive fellowship until God opened my eyes to the truth and I got out of there. Over the past few years I have heard several ridiculous reasons for our leaving, none of which are true so they would be outright lies! The most ridiculous one yet though is that my husband wanted to preach and the pastor told him no becuase he didn’t believe in some of the things my husband believed and would not let him in his pulpit. This could not be further from the truth! My husband is not a preacher and never asked to preach there or anywhere. The truth is that this church which I will not name publicly, is an abusive fellowship with cult like tendencies and rampant with false teaching. There you go folks that is the reason the Baker family left said church.
If you have any questions for me pertaining to my leaving an abusive fellowship you can leave a comment in the comment section of this post, I moderate all comments and if you would like to privately leave a comment just write at the top of your comment “Please leave Private”. I will answer you by email, when you post a comment it leaves me an email address for you that is associated with your login. If you would like me to use a different email just leave it in your comment, I will not use your email for anything other than replying to you. I don’t post my email publicly on my blog because I don’t like spammers! I also will not argue or debate any of this with anyone, I will only answer valid questions asked by sincere individuals.
Here is an interesting survey you can take as well: Spiritual Abuse Survey
09 Wednesday Mar 2011
Great article from Lighthouse Trails on the Rick Warren, Tony Blair Global Peace Plan. Look up kids for I believe very soon your redemption draweth nigh. There is nothing left on the calendar but for king Jesus to return, all the pieces are already in place, read your bible’s in light of history, Antichrist is already here and has been here for a very long time. Look no further than that little horn making great claims about himself, the holy father, the vicar of christ. Vicar in Latin meaning instead of, in Greek meaning anti, how much more clear can the instead of anti christ be? The office of the papacy is your anti-christ, not an individual but the office of. Listen to the sermon series on my blog on the study of Daniel.
Here is another great article from http://sueliz1.wordpress.com/ that explains Romes mission to make all Christians Catholic. The Catholic church has already made war against the saints of God and continues to do so through her false teaching today and who knows what extremes she will go to in the future. The papacy put to death more than 50 million people during the inquisitions who would not convert. That my friends is more than Hitler but we never speak of the atrocities committed by the Papacy, she still has the same goals as she did during the inquisitions, she has not changed!
http://sueliz1.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/romes-mission-make-all-christians-catholic/
15 Wednesday Dec 2010
Posted in D.Baker's Articles, Deception, State of the church
There is a great deal of teaching today that Christians can be under generational curses and some even go so far as to say that Christians can be demon possessed. I’m going to show you evidence in God’s word that proves this to be false. These are false teachings that go against the truth of God’s word.
Exodus 20:4-6
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Deuteronomy 5:8-10
8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 9 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Notice in these two verses iniquity is visited upon the children to the third and fourth generations to those who hate Him, and mercy to thousands who love Him and keep His commands. So when looking at these verses one would have to be unsaved and hate God for this iniquity to be visited upon them.
Exodus 34:6-7
6 And the LORD passed before him and proclaimed, “The LORD, the LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, 7 keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children to the third and the fourth generation.”
Notice here the Lord God is merciful and gracious, long suffering, abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands and forgiving iniquity, transgression and sin. And by no means clearing the guilty visiting iniquity of the fathers on their generations to come. So who are those thousands He forgives? And who are the guilty? The answers are in the two verses listed prior- those who love God and keep His commands and those who hate God being the latter. That sounds pretty simple when you look at these verses in light of each other.
Romans 8:1-2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
WOW! So how do those verses fit the teaching that a Christian can be cursed due to the sin of their Great Grand Daddy? How do these verses fit the teaching that a Christian needs deliverance from demon possession? Easy folks- IT DOESN’T FIT- it refutes it!
Ezekiel 18:2-4
2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:
‘ The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?
3 “As I live,” says the Lord GOD, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.
4 “ Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die.
Ezekiel 18:19-20
19 “Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
Please notice what these verses are saying: The son shall not bear the guilt of the father nor the father bear the guilt of the son. Yet more reason not to believe the false teaching of generational curses.
John 8:36
36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
If Jesus has set you free you are not cursed and you are not possessed – but you are free indeed!!
2 Corinthians 5:17-19
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
Did you really read what that said? If you are in Christ you are a new creation, Old things have passed away, all things have become new, you are reconciled to God through Christ Jesus. Your trespasses are not imputed to you. So if your trespasses are not imputed to you why would your parents and grandparents trespasses still be imputed to you? How ridiculous is it to say Christ forgave our sins but holds us accountable for the sins of our parents and grandparents?
If you have turned from your sin and turned to Christ Jesus and put your trust in Him, repented from your sins, and he is your savior, the Lord of your life, then you have to believe that He delivered you , He saved you completely! He set you free!
These false teachers who teach that you can be under generational curses or be possessed are lying to you. They deny the power of Christ in doing this. They want to make you believe that they wield some sort of power to deliver you themselves apart from what Christ did on the cross. All these deliverance ministries are doing is getting you to trust in the man and not the savior. Christ did it all on the cross- He said, “it is Finished” (John 19:30) the Greek word for this is tetelestai- paid in full! All the deliverance you need Jesus already accomplished on the cross.
15 Wednesday Dec 2010
Posted in Spurgeon, State of the church
The Down Grade Controversy
Questions for “Down-Grade” Doubters
From the March 1889 Sword and Trowel
Dear Mr. Editor,—At the recent meeting of the London Baptist Association, in endeavoring to show the inutility of the “seven statements” which it was proposed should be attached to Rule I. of the Constitution, I submitted the following seven questions. To these questions, which touch the very foundations of that mysterious theology in which so-called “Modern Thought” delights, no distinct answer is given by the seven statements. But, probably, they may be useful to others beside myself in the detection of error. I venture, therefore, to offer them to your readers for that purpose. The first question needs no explanation or comment.
I. Do you believe the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be an infallible and sufficient guide in all matters of religious faith and practice?
II. Do you believe in the DEITY as well as divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, i.e., that he is himself God? Note that a man may acknowledge Christ to be divine, as he might acknowledge the Bible to be divine, without admitting that he is God.
III. Do you believe that Christ, in his death, endured the penalty due to divine justice for human guilt? Note—Many admit that he died for us, but exclude the idea of penalty from his death.
IV. Do you believe the Holy Spirit to be, not only a divine influence, but, in the true, real, and proper sense of the term, a divine person, and himself God?
V. Do you believe man to have become, by sin, a fallen creature, and to have lost, by his fall, his original peaceful, happy, and holy relations with his Maker?
Note—Schiller described the Fall as “a giant stride in the history of the human race.”
VI. Do you believe that, by regeneration, man becomes possessed of a new and higher life, described as spiritual? that this life is only rendered possible by the mediatorial work of Christ? that it is only rendered actual by the work of the Holy Spirit in the soul? and that, apart from these means, it can never be enjoyed?
VII. Do you believe in the resurrection of the dead, as an event of the future, and not of continual recurrence? I think, Mr. Editor, that these questions may be made of great service in determining the whereabouts of many a man, sermon, or book.
Yours faithfully,
JOHN TUCKWELL.
Bayswater.
[We agree with our correspondent that there is a ready way of dodging round the seven statements; but even such questions as those which he suggests will not bring slippery gentlemen to book. We feel ashamed to have to draw up statements, and put questions to those who should be brethren. Methods which the subtlety of error renders necessary are, nevertheless, greatly distasteful to simple, trustful hearts. We prefer to quit the company of those who plead that creeds have no binding power: they only too plainly avow their own characters. When one has to weigh words with a person, fellowship is out of the question. The phrases adopted by the L. B. A. look right enough, but it is clear that they can be every one of them evaded. Knowing what we do know of some who are called ministers of Christ, and in their heart of hearts do not believe the old gospel, we are saddened in soul, and wonder what next will come.—ED.]
14 Tuesday Dec 2010
Posted in Spurgeon, State of the church
It amazes me that this was written 122 years ago but still applies today, wonder what Spurgeon would think of the state of the church now. It’s far worse now than it was in his time but even then the error was creeping in, the eggs of error that were planted in the nests of our churches seem to have hatched and multiplied rapidly.
The Down Grade Controversy~Charles H.Spurgeon
From the October 1888 Sword and Trowel
Every Day affords more and more evidence that while many are true to their Lord, unbelief has sadly eaten into Congregational and Baptist churches. It is not the ministers only who have espoused the modern inventions; but in some instances where the pastor remains true to evangelical doctrine, the deacons and leading members have gone aside to novel theories. The inspiration of Holy Scripture in the sense of its being the infallible Word of God, is not held sincerely by all those who wish to appear evangelical. This is the most serious matter of all, since it removes the very foundations of faith. We do not bring hasty accusations, but know what we affirm; and those of whom we make the affirmation know that we speak the truth. The varied views of the future which now obtain are naturally linked in with other errors, or logically involve them. The door is open, and droves of falsehoods enter by it. Numbers of good brethren in different ways remain in fellowship with those who are undermining the gospel; and they talk of their conduct as though it were a loving course which the Lord will approve of in the day of his appearing. We cannot understand them. The bounden duty of a true believer towards men who profess to be Christians, and yet deny the Word of the Lord, and reject the fundamentals of the gospel; is to come out from among them. If it be said that efforts should be made to produce reform, we agree with the remark; but when you know that they will be useless, what is the use? Where the basis of association allows error, and almost invites it, and there is an evident determination not to alter that basis, nothing remains to be done inside, which can be of any radical service. The operation of an evangelical party within can only repress, and perhaps, conceal, the evil for a time; but meanwhile, sin is committed by the compromise itself, and no permanently good result can follow. To stay in a community which fellowships all beliefs in the hope of setting matters right, is as though Abraham had stayed at Ur, or at Haran, in the hope of converting the household out of which he was called.
Complicity with error will take from the best of men the power to enter any successful protest against it. If any body of believers had errorists among them, but were resolute to deal with them in the name of the Lord, all might come right; but confederacies founded upon the principle that all may enter, whatever views they hold, are based upon disloyalty to the truth of God. If truth is optional, error is justifiable. If some supposed “life” is to be all, and “truth” is to be thrust out of doors, then there is room for all except the believer in the doctrines which have been revealed by the Eternal Spirit.
Our present sorrowful protest is not a matter of this man or that, this error or that; but of principle. There either is something essential to a true faith- some truth which is to be believed; or else everything is left to each man’s taste. We believe in the first of these opinions, and hence we cannot dream of religious association with those who might on the second theory be acceptable. Those who are of our mind should, at all cost, act upon it. The Lord give them decision, and wean them from all policy and trimming!
Our one sole aim is the preservation and spread of the gospel of our Lord Jesus, and we mourn that godly men should be parties to a system which is destructive of good, and only promotive of error. It is clear that, as a general rule, error by itself has not the power to maintain communities in a flourishing condition among Nonconformists. As a general fact, churches avowedly Unitarian, or anti-evangelical, gradually swindle. The Old general Baptists, once rid of the evangelicals, made rapid descent to their present moribund condition, while the evangelicals multiplied abundantly. The plan of the enemy now is to lay the egg of error in the nest of our churches. It is hoped that among a people so tolerant of false doctrine as many Baptists and Congregationalists now are, this new doctrine will work secretly, and gain too strong a hold to be removed. The plan is a very crafty one, and seems likely to succeed. It is hard to get leaven out of dough, and easy to put it in. This leaven is already working. Our daring to unveil this deep design is inconvenient, and of course it brings upon our devoted head all manner of abuse. But that matters nothing so long as the plague is stayed. Oh, that those who are spiritually alive in the churches may look to this thing, and may the Lord himself baffle the adversary!
we are represented as wishing to force upon the churches a narrow creed. Nothing was further from our mind. We do not consider that the demand for agreement to vital truths common to all Christians can be looked upon as a piece of sectarian bigotry. here is a man, who is himself a Calvinist, who does not ask that a Union should draw up a Calvinistic creed, but only begs for one which will let the whole world know that brethren are associated as Christians, and that those who do not agree to the first principles of our faith will be intruders. Is this narrowness? If , after a basis is laid down, errorists do intrude, the case will be very different from what it is at present, and less of responsibility will lie upon the members of the community. It is mere cant to cry, “We are evangelical; we are all evangelical,” and yet decline to say what evangelical means. If men are really evangelical, they delight to spread as glad tidings the truths from which they take the name.
Waiting still for guidance, we begin to see our way in a measure, but implore prayer that every step may be of the Lord.
08 Wednesday Dec 2010
Posted in Discernment, State of the church
From Christian Research Service:
To the Reader: The following MASTER LIST consists of authors and books found advertised and promoted within online Christian bookstores worldwide. Certain books may be ordered online from walk-in Christian bookstore databases. Although special care has been taken to provide current and accurate information, the reader is encouraged to check and verify the names prior to their removal.
While the Homosexual, Lesbian, Pro-Gay, Transgendered category contains authors who are either homosexual, lesbian, transgendered, or pro-gay, not all of the authors are homosexual or lesbian or transgendered.
In each category, the authors’ names are arranged in alphabetical order and in a single line. Information about the authors and books may be located by conducting a Google Search on the author’s name ( www.google.com ) or by reading the “Description” section on the book provided by the online bookstore. The title (name) of the author’s book is in italics.
Research Tip: Use quotation marks and the + sign to centralize your research topic. Example: “Benny Hinn” + “false prophet”.
Although positive changes have taken place within the online and walk-in Christian bookstores, it is important that website managers and employees continuously monitor their websites and databases to ensure that solid, Bible-based materials are being presented to the body of Christ. As long as a bookstore claims to be Christian, it should be Christian through and through. Indeed, the spiritual welfare of Christians and those searching for the real Jesus should be foremost in the minds of everyone involved within the Christian book industry.
This MASTER LIST will be updated regularly, and will be of great use to bookstore affiliates, customers, distributors, employees, managers, owners, publishers and vendors of both online and walk-in Christian bookstores.
Additional articles and information concerning the Christian bookstore industry is at http://www.christianresearchservice.com/ChristianBookstores.htm.
Permission to Reprint: Christian Research Service makes this MASTER LIST available free-of-charge to the body of Christ and Christian bookstore industry employees. Permission to reprint is granted provided it is reproduced in its entirety, without additions or changes, and for non-profit/not-for-sale use. Making hard copies for personal use or distribution is encouraged.
Acknowledgements: The MASTER LIST has been made possible through the valuable assistance of Christians worldwide. Their love for the Lord, the truth of His word, and concern for the spiritual welfare of their fellow Christians are first and foremost in their lives. Indeed, their courage is remarkable.
Your comments and questions are welcomed. Until then, may the Lord bless you in your efforts to test all things, defend the faith, guard the flock, and expose the unfruitful works of darkness (1 Thessalonians 5:21; Jude 3; Acts 20:27-32; Ephesians 5:11).
Sincerely in Christ,
Bud Press, Director
Christian Research Service http://www.christianresearchservice.com
Click here to see the Master List (listed on the left hand side of the page).
22 Friday Oct 2010
Posted in John MacArthur, State of the church
I should first state that I know not everyone will agree with this article and what John MacArthur is saying here and some might even be offended by it. I know a lot of people don’t have a church to attend for various reasons, some can’t find one that isn’t full of error, some have been hurt in churches in the past and are afraid to try again, some don’t want to submit to rules and regulations and want to continue to live the way they want and some are just satisfied to stay home and really don’t care to find a church. There are some people who can’t attend church due to sickness and that is a different matter altogether. I know there are some who are praying for a church and my advice to that person would be don’t give up and visit some until you find the one! Believe me God will answer your prayers, I was without a church for almost a year and continued to pray for a good biblically sound church and God led me to one and I am so thankful! Church is important for the believer and it’s important to God for the believer to be a part of one, this isn’t something that I am making up God’s word is very clear on this matter and it speaks for itself on this. There are many brothers and sisters in Christ who risk their lives in other parts of the world to assemble together because they don’t live in a country where they have the freedom to do so. We have the freedom to do so and we should exercise that freedom, our brothers and sisters in China and elsewhere would be overcome with joy if they could openly and freely go to church.
The following “Question” was asked of John MacArthur Jr., the pastor of Grace Community Church, Sun Valley, California. Copyright 2001 by John MacArthur Jr., All Rights Reserved.
Question
Answer
The New Testament repeatedly emphasizes the importance of local assemblies. In fact, it was the pattern of Paul’s ministry to establish local congregations in the cities where he preached the gospel. Hebrews 10:24-25 commands every believer to be a part of such a local body and reveals why this is necessary.
“And let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more, as you see the day drawing near” (Hebrews 10:24-25).
It is only in the local body to which one is committed that there can be the level of intimacy that is required for carefully stimulating fellow-believers “to love and good deeds.” And it is only in this setting that we can encourage one another.
The New Testament also teaches that every believer is to be under the protection and nurture of the leadership of the local church. These godly men can shepherd the believer by encouraging, admonishing, and teaching. Hebrews 13:7 and 17 help us to understand that God has graciously granted accountability to us through godly leadership.
Furthermore, when Paul gave Timothy special instructions about the public meetings, he said “Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching” (1 Timothy 4:13). Part of the emphasis in public worship includes these three things: hearing the Word, being called to obedience and action through exhortation, and teaching. It is only in the context of the local assembly that these things can most effectively take place.
Acts 2:42 shows us what the early church did when they met together: “They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.” They learned God’s Word and the implications of it in their lives; they joined to carry out acts of love and service to one another; they commemorated the Lord’s death and resurrection through the breaking of bread; and they prayed. Of course, we can do these things individually, but God has called us into His body-the church is the local representation of that worldwide-body-and we should gladly minister and be ministered to among God’s people.
Active local church membership is imperative to living a life without compromise. It is only through the ministry of the local church that a believer can receive the kind of teaching, accountability, and encouragement that is necessary for him to stand firm in his convictions. God has ordained that the church provide the kind of environment where an uncompromising life can thrive.
Added to Bible Bulletin Board’s “MacArthur’s Questions and Answers” by:
Tony Capoccia
Bible Bulletin Board
Box 119
Columbus, New Jersey, USA, 08022
Websites: www.biblebb.com and www.gospelgems.com
Email: tony@biblebb.com
Online since 1986
